New comment from Robert Liming
It is my understanding that land deeds were not necessarily purchased. Land was often deeded in exchange for services. For instance, Timber may need to be cut to carve out a road, a grain mill may need to be built and maintained,or a deed may be issued in exchange for the recipient running a tavern ("road house"). Land was cheep and laborers were lacking so it would be a mistake to rule out John Liming receiving a land grant due to lack of money.
Original Post by Kari-Admin
The Nevis indenture record – Is this our John?
I want to start this discussion about when John Liming left England, because there is lore based on a 1661 indenture record that is in most trees. And then there is the 1675 Delaware Land patent record which was referenced in a couple of sites but that I have just found.
Is one or the other truly our John Liming? Are they both our John Liming? Will we ever know for sure?
The indenture records states:
John Lyning to Joseph Hardwick, 8 years, Nevis
Source: The Bristol Registers of Servants Sent to Foreign Plantations, 1654-1686, by Peter Wilson Coldham, published by the Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc. (Baltimore), in 1988.
And can also be viewed here: http://www.virtualjamestown.org/indentures/about_indentures.html#Bristol
First off the name is not spelled Lyming or Liming. I am not sure why this man was ever singled out as our possible ancestor?
Dallas and Janet in their family document state that several of the early Monmouth residents were on the ship Gabriel to Nevis. I looked up all the men they listed and did find that most of them were in Nevis but were sent at different times, but would have overlapped when John Lyning was there.
Servant Name–Servant’s Destination–Servant’s Ship–Servant’s Indenture–Release
William Browne—Nevis—August 27 1661—1665
Richard Lawrence—Nevis—December 1 1661—1664
Roger Williams—Nevis—May 14 1661—1665
John Lyning—Nevis—September 6 1661—1669
Joseph Lawrence—Nevis—January 13 1662—1667
Roger Williams—Nevis—January 11 1662—1666
John Robins—Nevis—January 25 1662—1666
William Browne—Nevis—November 26 1669—1673
James Browne—Nevis—Gabriel—October 19 1670—1674
Roger Williams—Nevis—Nevis Adventure—September 10 1670—1674
William Lawrence—Nevis—December 1 1674—1678
no Thomas LEONARD
no John Bowen
But I have still yet to cross check these men in the early middletown tax list records or other early resident lists I have. If all these men did end up in Middletown by 1680 then this would put weight on them all knowing each other from Nevis. They could have made some kind of pact to help each other after release.
comment made on…
I know that Sam K Leming believed that because these other men had been in Nevis also that John Lyning was our John Liming. But that does not indicate overwhelming proof that this was the true. It does make a case that it might be true.
I have found several other documents that state the name John Liming from 1676-1678 in the Delaware territory of New York, that make me question the whole indenture story. First is a land deed for 300 acres given to John Liming by Lord Edward Andros the Royal Governor of New York. Then he is mentioned as a witness in a 1676 court case.
I am still working on these records to understand a few things.
How were these land deeds sold? To men already in England as part of a land speculation company as was common. Or sold in New York to people already in the colonies?
Are any of the men listed from Nevis by Sam, also listed in these Delaware records?
I believe that these Delaware records are in fact the first records of our John in the Colonies.
Questions this brings up for me is… If John was both the indentured servant and the Delaware man, and John was released from his servitude in 1669, how did he earn enough money and stature to buy 300 acres from Lord Edward Andros by 1676? Did he go back to England in 1669 and come to New York in 1675? Did he come directly to the colonies to New York in 1675?
What if John Liming was not the indentured servant and came straight from England as a statured man who could purchase 300 acres from Lord Andros. This is a question that keeps pulling at my brain.
I am writing up a document that clearly defines what we do know about John Liming. It includes the photo’s of the documents (and sources) we have for John. A list of documents I wish we could find. And all the questions about John that I have right now.
I am trying to compile all the copies of the original source images, right now. I have contacted a certified genealogist in NY to ask if she might know of a historian who specializes in 1670-1680 Delaware history.